My friends, it is my opinion that the articles that I have read on this site concerning the Venus Project are contrary to my personal vision for a sustainable future. Let me tell you why, so you can comment.

First, I think the lack of concrete information and the preponderance of fawning descriptions of the architect considerably lower the quality and usefulness of the article on a website devoted to sustainability education.

The materials that were mentioned trouble me. Aluminum is foremost in my memory. I don't understand how people could continue to advocate for "sustainable infrastructure" which necessitates mining or complex industrial machinery (for manufacturing, chemical remodifications, complicated "recycling" procedures).

I think it also bears mentioning the lack of insulation provided by such materials, and thereby the unfeasibility of these buildings in most if not all climates. (Keep in mind, the article said that such houses could be "constructed" in a matter of hours).

The Venus project calls for the building of new cities. But don't we have our sprawling megalopolises already? And instead of steadily greening and reconstituting these areas, we are advocating the destruction of fresh lands for the purposes of human occupation?

The automation of "drudgery" like agriculture? Well excuse me if I am more inclined to believe that ending this consumer culture's increasingly alienated stance toward nature and the basic infrastructure supporting our lives is a better idea. Furthermore, this system seems to implicitly rely on a rigorous industrial agriculturist modality. It's true, industrial agriculture does take a lot of arduous work. Permaculture agricultural systems, however, don't nearly necessitate as much maintenance, and they have the added benefit of not needing high-tech machines which cost money, require maintenance, will eventually need replacements, and involve manufacturing processes that are inherently polluting and wasteful of natural resources and energy.

I've read another article on this site that lambasts "greenwashing". Well, it is my opinion that ideas like "The Venus Project" are just another example of our wolfish high-tech consumer culture values masquerading in green sheeps clothing.


Sustainability requires systemic change, not reform and not revamped, high-tech versions of our current value system.

I do not think you understand about gardening, permaculture works only after years, It will not work to feed large groups to much work. Not everyone wants to spend the years it takes to craft a fully intergated ecosystem. If we can find ways to speed it up, and make it better. You seem keen on complaining, that in my book is an offer to help us. I sure, Can use all the help I can get.

I think the misunderstanding derives from the differences between our personal visions of sustainability, not my understanding of gardening and permaculture.

Yes, it does take years to develop a largely autonomous ecosystem that can produce food for human consumption. And yes, organic agriculture (by contrast) does require regular labor.

Here's where our visions don't jive. In my opinion:
The value of speed, the need to constantly speed up natural processes, is what is largely responsible for our current societal state of unsustainable culture.

The constant influx of more and more and more goods and appliances of "convenience" are a perpetual source of waste in our cultural and environmental landscape. Do we really need the toasters with egg-frying devices included? The kitty litter boxes that sift themselves? Block after block of fast food chains? The Walmart superstores that offer every product in one place and displace the specialized Mom and Pop stores?

I think that trying to speed up natural processes like agriculture is a part of the same mentality that gave rise to the aforementioned problems.

You seem keen on making assumptions about my experience and character rather than responding directly to my arguments, Thenor. So if you want some background to enhance the credibility of my ideas about agriculture: I've lived on a rural commune for about two years and I know the work necessary to provide the majority of foodstuffs for a community of one hundred individuals. Our work required about 5-15 able-bodied and enthusiastic people in the population. We worked alternating shifts on weekdays and Saturdays throughout the growing and harvesting seasons. It can be done, and it's fun.

I apologize for the assumption, I too believe that our current system encourages gross materialism. I also think that agriculture does not need to be as large a drain of time as it is. Certain aspects can be automated so that time can be spent on higher things. I am not advocating that we change all our growing systems, only that we need to be able to provide for a city of 3000-15000. To do this we need to make our use of space more efficient. For a city having a few vertical food production towers would be necessary to accommodate the high density living situations. For small communities such tech would be overkill and unpractical.

Our current system of citys is fraught with waist, to fix some of the systems is going to require a large amount of retrofitting. We as a race can barely understand the ecosystems we live in let alone the global system. we need a way of looking at all that is available. This was why I looked at the Venus Project. It is a mode of looking at everything as an interconnected web that uses tech to monitor the various systems.

I do not think should be our end goal but it sure is better then the current system. I encourage you to look further in to there ideas.

I have heard some really promising ideas on Sustainable Cement production that end up being a carbon sink as apposed to a source of carbon

I really want to hear more about your experience. I am very sorry if my post seemed as an attack, I am so used to most people who are interested in sustainability having no experience what so ever. I look forward to your further input